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Poster: Daddy D Date: Jun 7, 2014 12:09pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Why are so many taper-friendly bands against video taping?

Lots of bands allow tapers to make audio recordings of their shows, but few allow fans to video tape tape their shows--can anyone explain the reasoning / rational for this?

"Maybe" I can understand why the biggest super star acts on the scene (think Phish, Dave Mathews, ABB, etc ) wouldn't allow it (because they don't need & wouldn't benefit from additional promotion and are likely video-taping plenty of shows themselves). But why wouldn't lesser-known bands who typically play 500-1500 capacity clubs / theaters allow fans to video tape and post clips & shows to youtube, etc?

Lots of bands that play these size venues won't be around in 5-15 years, and video tapes of their shows would (presumably) be something they would enjoy watching & re-living themselves when they are old, showing to their kids & grandkids, etc.

Additionally, while I suppose I can understand why they wouldn't want fans to sell or otherwise profit from video recordings, if you're in a band playing to 1,000 people a night, by definition your band is not well-known outside of the immediate jam-band community. If fans are willing to tape your shows, post them to youtube, and thereby basically promote / advertise your band to the millions of people around the world, why would you not be in favor of this? How is this not a good thing for you & your band?

If it's simply a matter of "quality control" (i.e., they don't want shitty-quality recordings being posted on youtube) that's irrelevant--poor-quality videos don't catch on & "go viral"--people only watch/listen to tapes/videos that are high quality & thus enjoyable.

Along a similar line of reasoning, I'd go so far as to say I don't understand why bands don't allow their fans to make & sell hand-crafted t-shirts, stickers, etc., at shows. Yes, I understand that it would cannibalize same sales from the band's merch table (in which case the solution is to make your product better than the products your fans are making, competition spurs creativity, innovation & improvement), but hell, if someone wants to make a t-shirt with my band's name on it, and then someone else is going to buy it, wear it, and thereby advertise/promote my band whenever they wear it to school, a festival, or the next club they walk into, I think I'd be all for it...

Think about all the Dead & JGB clips that are being posted to youtube these days & how enjoyable they are to watch & re-experience. In 20-30 years nearly every band you are a fan of today will be a thing of the past--wouldn't it be in everyone's best interest (fans and bands alike) to have as many of their shows recorded as possible?

Which bands are making any considerable amount of money selling video recordings to fans? If a band is not making money selling videos, how are they hurt by allowing fans to video-tape shows?

This post was modified by Daddy D on 2014-06-07 19:09:54

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Poster: mike6363 Date: Jun 7, 2014 1:05pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Why are so many taper-friendly bands against video taping?

I have no idea, and this has been bothering me for many years. Some of the best shows by anyone ever are those by Artists in the rough, playing smaller venues before they are famous and polished. I wish I knew the answers ( I am sure there are many reasons )

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Poster: c-freedom Date: Jun 7, 2014 12:34pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Why are so many taper-friendly bands against video taping?

Hey Daddy D.

It might have to do with liability issues. Suppose somebody video tapes something that comes back against the band.
example- let's say somebody who is known to be underage flashes before a camera, if that is recorded and disseminated with the bands music as the soundtrack all kinds of issues arise.
The Dead pushed the envelope on the creative side of things by really encouraging the fan base to follow their own creative impulse but the line did get drawn at Grateful Dead copyright knock-offs. I know the band also opposed the use of their music to sell stuff like Budweiser.
Went to an R.F.K show and the roadies covered up the Budweiser ad directly behind the stage.(Which I think was super cool)
It might be easier just to prohibit video than to try and do damage control after the fact. Another factor might be the venues themselves. It is pretty easy to set up a taper rig and fly under the radar. A video camera just screams out for security to ask for some kind of credentials.
Also in a union establishment like Jerry Garcia on BWAY gigs- unions have strict regulations about taping and video policy to the point where the band itself cannot record their own gig without the union signing off on it.
I would think most venues above club size have video taping policies in place. and I have a hard time thinking of any club that would let you or me roll in with a video camera either.
And mostly I do believe that video can be an infringement on the creativity of the band. Although I do like your take on the market place sorting out the quality video from the trash.

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Poster: Daddy D Date: Jun 8, 2014 2:25pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Why are so many taper-friendly bands against video taping?

I'm not going to spend time discussing legal issues as I have no knowledge to base an opinion on. However, I'm pretty sure if any business posts a sign stating that video recording is taking place, legally-speaking they've pretty much covered their asses. Besides, think of all the live video cams operating in public places (including famous bars) all over the world, & every where you go every single day you are being video-taped by security cameras.

I understand that some venues have a no-video policy, and that too is outside this discussion. I am simply referring to bands that do allow fans to audio tape their shows but specifically do not allow video taping.

First of all it's beyond ridiculous for bars or bands not to allow video taping as it is occurring at every single show. The bars & bands are operating under an understanding of reality that no longer exists. In 2014 99% of the people in the audience have cameras, audio recorders, and most importantly high quality video recorders in their pockets in the form of a cell phone. You simply cannot stop people from taking pictures & video recording at least parts of the show. Talk about an exercise in futility...

In the 1970's and 80's how many people did you see walking around the Dead show parking lot making videos? Very few--the equipment was (in the 70's) rather bulky & expensive) and even the 80's when it wasn't crazy expensive, it was still tape-based, so editing it was lots of work, time-consuming, & outside the average person's ability.

Today a high definition video recorder can be bought for $200 and fits in the palm of your hand, while a professional quality video recorder (the kind used to make independent Hollywood movies) can be bought for as little as a $1,000. Editing either is super-fast & easy.

At every show I go to their are always dozens of people in the audience holding up their cell phones taking pictures and video taping the show. They are doing themselves a disservice because by concentrating on taking the video they are missing "being in the moment" and fully enjoying the music. Additionally I think many in the audience find it distracting, & of course it interferes with other's view of the stage. Worse yet, most people don't take good videos, so they probably rarely if ever actually watch the video they missed the show to take.

If I were a band manager, I'd spend a few thousand dollars and record every single show. I'd then make an announcement before the show & say something to the affect of "Hey guys--see these cameras at the sound board & on stage? We're recording the show, and within 48 hours we will post the video of the show on our website which you can stream or download for free. I PROMISE YOU our video's will be much, much better quality and sound than you can record with your cameras, so please, for both your own enjoyment & the enjoyment of everyone around you, keep your cameras in your pockets. If you want to take pictures of the band they'll be at the merch table after to the show to take pictures, sign autographs, etc, but for the next two hours, let's all try to live in the present moment & enjoy the music. Thank you all for being here, and now please welcome ____________!!"

Again, I can understand why the top-tier bands don't allow it. They don't need the promotion and perhaps their making decent coin selling downloads of their shows either themselves or on or other such sites. But for up & coming bands or even band 2nd & 3rd tier bands on the on the jamband festival circuit (bands that we all know & love but whose members can walk around in public together and rarely be recognized) I struggle to understand why they would be against having videos of their hottest jams being posted (& hopefully viewed by the masses of people who have never heard of them) on youtube, etc.

This post was modified by Daddy D on 2014-06-08 21:25:54

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Poster: c-freedom Date: Jun 8, 2014 5:15pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Why are so many taper-friendly bands against video taping?

Daddy D- I know I am certainly enjoying the video's coming out of the Music vault. Just the Dead stuff they have been releasing to You-Tube is incredible.
Sounds like you have a good idea going- maybe find a band or venue and Let the Good Times Roll!!!